How to explain that it's hard to estimate the time required for a bigger software project? Firstly, I am aware that this is not at all a simple problem, and that predicting the future is difficult to do well. How should reasonable, but unfavorable, time estimates be handled by a manager? The open-source game engine youve been waiting for: Godot (Ep. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The idea is to compute the ETC from the last 'n' seconds or minutes (like your second idea). How do you give your top choice a little nudge? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Take a good look at the requirements you have. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Three-point estimating. The links look useful as well. How to react to a students panic attack in an oral exam? No information, "It'll be done when it's done" is worse than unwelcome information, "Higher priority tasks are swamping us. . In most, cases, you may trim branches up to the property line, yourself. Not recommended. And our advise is: discussion of the project and providing ballpark figures should just be steps well towards receiving componential estimate (which is flexible, one can make use of componential type estimate for the whole development process. Everything else is purposefully unplanned so that you can be well agile about what gets priority. Your new game-changing quick reference tool is just a click away. How do you politely ask for estimated time of completion? This technique is certainly more challenging if doing the entire project or not depends on the overall estimate. 1 day to do analysis, and then provide a tighter range), If the task it too large, break it up and provide a range for each piece. Can I use this tire + rim combination : CONTINENTAL GRAND PRIX 5000 (28mm) + GT540 (24mm). And try to recognize that if my answer is "Two weeks! The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. This is pretty easy to understand, and it is also clear that there is lots of uncertainty in those guesses. Certainly not. Tell them that they can talk to the manager if they disagree with the current priorities. 'Done' as in just finished coding it, or 'done' as in "the users are using it"? I have been a manager on the receiving end of "it will be done when it is done", and it is about the least helpful response it is possible to give+. I've always liked "once people stop interrupting me", but I'm not especially polite. Being on good terms with your neighbors is important, but sometimes it can be difficult. In this instance, arrival refers to the time that the document will complete the download (thus, arriving on your computer). have to refactor. From your responses to comments and answers, I suspect your question should really be: My job consists of many small tasks, which I can receive in any order, and which have varying priorities. We have a safety issue with overhanging limbs from a large maple tree on 125 Maples property. Ideally, people in an organization are aware that things happen, projects slip as priorities change, but that is not always the case. make a forecast on how much time it will take you to accomplish a task; use this forecast in your planning; add enough extra time for safety; measure the time it actually takes to accomplish the task; document the hours spent on a task in your journal; compare forecast and actual time after finishing the task; learn from this comparison; Just make sure you keep me updated with everything here. @r.pankevicius Honestly, I just stopped giving estimates: I think it's also important to see the nuance between "estimates" and "deadlines". We understand you manage the property at 125 Maple Street. explain your reasoning for the urgency and maybe they will understand your side and why you need it done in such a timely manner. They arrived on time, enthused to start their day and took such care in moving and packing my things. Why does Jesus turn to the Father to forgive in Luke 23:34? Because I have been on the job hunt, I believe I will soon have an offer. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? OK, maybe more diplomatically than that. I dont think thats going to work at all! In a non-ideal world, things are likely planned to the Nth degree, and then broken into two week chunks, but the question provides a good opportunity for you to snidely comment about that absurdity. The optimal weights for the linear combination can be fitted using linear regression (a one-liner in R). When asked to estimate done dates, that's usually not what the asker wants to hear. It has happened countless of times, and I always promise it won't happen again. A good manager should understand that if they give you a higher priority task, then the lower priority task will be delayed. My first estimate is always two weeks. Always provide a range (i.e. What you need is to be more, not less communicative when this happens. How much do you feel improved today? Have you gathered enough information to find out the exact time frame? It only takes a minute to sign up. (The restaurant) requires a reservation. For example, is review included? Often the person asking wants to know so that they can plan. Because I have some sort of bizarre mental block that makes me think everything sounds like it'll two weeks. How long does it take to write good requirements? The 'done' definition is probably unclear: When will it be done? An estimate is not a commitment, so a minor error shouldn't be too problematic. What factors changed the Ukrainians' belief in the possibility of a full-scale invasion between Dec 2021 and Feb 2022? That said, be careful not to estimate yourself into a hole. This should not wait until they have to ask you why it isn't done yet. But it does. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. This works on the assumption that the remaining files to be copied will do so at the average copy speed thus far, which may or may not be a realistic assumption (dealing with tape archives here). Because I have been on the job hunt, I believe I will soon have an offer. Decompose this model and build estimates from the components. . I sent him my estimate for each task along with that detailed breakdown. But if you slip into the 180th or 210th day, not so much. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Don't do this! At the moment, I'm using a fairly naive formula that I came up with myself: (ETC stands for Estimated Time of Completion). Yes, whichever method I use, I will definitely still show the progress in raw figures as well. The boss wants me to pass it to him, so he knows when to expect it all. in your estimate to get a better number. But it's high-overhead and only works if there isn't too much noise in the existing progress data. Lastly, your second idea (average over the last n seconds) attempts to measure the instantaneous speed. I've recommended them to family and friends." Today through 4pm Sunday: Take $5K off the list price, Only $1,000 Earnest Money (Primary Residence. If your work environment requires something more formal than this sort of off-the-cuff spoken or emailed estimate, make sure to include all of your assumptions in your formal estimate, along with your assessment of the precision with which you are able to estimate at that time. If not, or in case of doubt, involve your boss. . An estimate that's too short leaves no breathing room at all, you either meet it desperately or you're screwed. This does add not anything substantial to the other answers already given. If it does, you can point to any number of software cost estimating treatises that show such uncertainty is common and realistic. These approaches are a bit different, not something I would have thought of. This is an introductory course on the key concepts of planning and executing projects. Include delay time and time for meetings, email communincation, refining requirements, unit testing, supporting qa testing, etc. Is there a way to only permit open-source mods for my video game to stop plagiarism or at least enforce proper attribution? The food sounds amazing. ETA is acceptable to use in place of estimated time of completion. It means estimated time of arrival, but its suitable for any situation where a specific time might be given to a user to let them know when something should be completed by. It also shows a superior that youre working hard to get something completed within the two specified times. Nag a little if needed, but use the human touch to explain what you need and by when you need it. I can't recommend that book highly enough. If you have 6 projects lined up already, you simply refuse more. It gives the answer you want, it's fairly factual and neutral in tone, and it suggests that an estimate could be made at some point, but certainly not right now here at the coffee machine without a clear picture of what would it actually mean to do the thing he's asking about. (Before or After? Generally, I start this sort of project at around $X. You think this is ridiculous, you think you can pull this off in one week. in your estimate to get a better number. Having tried to handle it amicably will have been documented if your neighbor suddenly objects. ", This. that tend to be closer to the true values of the measurements and Once we had decided to share our experience and our knowledge about software estimation process and defined four distinct types of estimations: Of course, those types are distinct. Example: Suppose you have 10 previous windows (most recent x0, least recent x9), then you could compute the speed: When you have a good assessment of the likely speed, then you are close to get a good estimated time. . when in a new job position. Often times I will include any uncertainty or possible variations with the estimate along with how the changes may impact other areas of the system and the extent of regression testing required. Whats the time frame right now? (Are you the same Kyralessa from the joel on software boards?). End time is a confident phrase like completion time. Its a good way of showing that something will come to an end at a specific moment. Fixed scope and resources - but I am being asked for an exact release date. "Feel" is completely subjective - but with this kind of estimate my experience tells me you won't find objective measurements. [1] Further, even . Ring a bell? Post Sennings general rule is to not wait longer than one to three hours to reply, he tells TI. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. I asked a follow up question concerning your 3rd point. For context, I'm trying to predict the completion of a long file copy. He has six years of experience in professional communication with clients, executives, and colleagues. Ask Question Asked 4 years, 6 months ago. But, since the Requirements aren't written yet, I will be able to provide a more precise estimate once I read them." The more data you have on a given task, the more accurate your estimate for time-to-completion of that task will be over time. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. ETA means estimated time of arrival. Arrival doesnt always have to refer to destinations or travel. No shooting from the hip. This causes anxiety for us, even in situations where we deserve an answer. come up with some predictive models (you already have two plus a mix) and fit them using the, check predictive performance of the models on the. What is ETA on completion? So when my boss would ask in the standup (we work with Agile development) I would give him my best estimate and explain why I thought that. If you are dealing with an absentee owner or managed property situation, you may need to track down the property manager or owner and put your request in writing. Determine the accuracy that you need. Small tasks or complete solutions. Add 25-50% to your estimate so you have a higher chance of accurately estimating the time you need. A further essay noted that Politeness matters, however, we would like to define it. [2]. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. After all, if its something you want to do, go and enjoy it! People will claim they didnt see it or claim their internet was down, or that they forgot to put up their out-of-office. Im not sure when theyll have this delivered. Best, (signature). Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. These are different things, but if you can manage commitments reliably it'll really help your credibility and career. It's part of your job. By the way, all of the above responses assume you are 'senior level' worker responsible for their own scheduling. Estimates given at the coffee machine will (like the coffee) come back to haunt you. If we're unlucky, six weeks from now. From this perspective, the answer is obvious - you need to do better task tracking and management. A more robust technique for this might be to use the Kalman filter, whose purpose is exactly this: Its purpose is to use measurements observed over time, containing Once you provide your estimates (no matter how they are derived), keep your stakeholders in the loop if anything happens that will change your estimate - particularly as deadlines loom. If it's a long task, account for things like other work, time off (holidays, vacation, sick time), meetings, and other overhead tasks when picking a delivery date. Use the data to develop an estimate. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? How can I deal with this situation? Centering layers in OpenLayers v4 after layer loading, Am I being scammed after paying almost $10,000 to a tree company not being able to withdraw my profit without paying a fee. Do you think thats going to be enough time to get everything together? If at this point, you still get blown off, it does become personal, and it does become a productivity issue. Weight the second method more if the copy speed is unpredictable, and is likely to do things like speed up/slow down for long periods, or stop altogether for long periods. Estimates for what? How do you get your contractor to respond with a deadline? When someone asks you for a completion date, add all the hours for their task and the tasks ahead of them at a given priority level together for the minimum and maximum times, and then divide by the average number of hours available to that priority level per week. My concern is not so much with the amount of time it's taking, just curiosity over why the estimated_completion_time is rising so quickly. The whole point is the stakeholders aren't sure if it is even worth doing the project - which is why they need the numbers for the business case. Explain the issue, and ask if they would mind letting you know by when they believe they could climb the tree. ), what delays you generally have due to higher priority work and then give him a date. You already experimented with the sliding window, the idea here is to take a fairly large sliding window, but instead of a plain average, giving more weight to more recent measures, since they are more indicative of the evolution (a bit like a derivative). We're often asked for an "ballpark estimate" during meetings where we're given very broad and vauge ideas of what they'd like to do. Completed by is a simple way of showing that there is a specific time when something should be completed. You need to complete this to graduate. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. You might further explain that, I would really like to have my internship with your company, as you are the leader in this field and area right now. Make assumptions to fill in the gaps based on your best guess of what they want. The project will be delivered within the next twenty-four hours. Field service and maintenance companies can easily monitor these times using live tracking. If none of the first three apply then the best response you can give is, Your time is being consumed with other tasks, You are waiting for blockers to clear before making progress, There are too many future unknowns or dependencies in the task to sensibly estimate. it is 18 months and 2 million". rclayton.silvrback.com/software-estimation-is-a-losing-game, marcgg.com/blog/2015/08/27/deadlines-estimates-software-startup, The Pragmatic Programmer: From Journeyman to Master, programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/132970/, The open-source game engine youve been waiting for: Godot (Ep. Indicate when progress has stalled - although if progress consistently stalls and then continues, we should be able to deal with that. Meanwhile, Joe estimates 5 months. How Do You Ask For Contact Details In An Email? To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. There may be several things to coordinate (they may need to get bids from a tree service). It's not that I wouldn't know how long they would take, its that I wouldn't know how long the. How to exempt oneself from giving project completion time estimates? Even if you're blowing numbers out of thin air - make sure you always keep some estimate around. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. For the last semester of your degree, you need to do an internship. Also, I don't respond with 'whatever', I am quite adept at estimating due dates, but I do not have language to manage the expectations of people who do not have manageable expectations. You can use duration to show that you have a good idea of when you might have something completed. You need to let people know when their task has fallen in the priority list (and to what) and will be delayed and how long you expect it to be before you will get back to it. Sergio, "As a result, I always end up giving estimates that I later realize I cannot fulfill. @Darius.V, you make a good point. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. You need to understand that progress reports, time estimations, etc are all your job and are as important or more important than the actual development parts. Track your estimates. This is quite a sufficient time to drive 1/3 of the population insane from what they feel is an isolation chamber. How do you politely get a deadline out of him? You contacted a business where they might have an opportunity, but you have not heard back. ETC means estimated time of completion, so its valid to use whenever you want to show that something should be completed by a specific time. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Do EMC test houses typically accept copper foil in EUT? For example, the cubic function produces the nice speed-up toward the completion time. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. They havent given me an exact time for it yet, but Ill keep trying! Continue with Recommended Cookies. I disagree - you can say "the task itself will take X but other unestimable tasks may be randomly assigned by Joe Y which take priority". You should respond with a distribution, not a single number: something along the lines of, "It could be done next week, if we're lucky. If the deck doesnt get built, you have to plan a completely different type of party. Suspicious referee report, are "suggested citations" from a paper mill? Err on the side of the looser estimate. If not, then he saved 7.5 hours over what it would've cost him if I'd done it without an estimate. 10 hours a week? I have worked on a project similar to this. Sometimes estimating becomes an enormous challenge for you and your team, especially when we are talking about software project estimation. And if he did want to invest the 8.5 hours, the detail work I did for the estimate was work I'd have had to do anyway. I will be booking it when they open tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. I like "there is no estimate for that yet.". And then instead of answering with "2 Months", you can answer with "sounds like an L to me" (or whatever your calibration for project turns out to be). this is quite smart (if you are allowed to use it): I prefer going with a similar approach but just generalising with time values, so I will answer "this will take a week or so" or "it's going to be a matter of days" for something small and avoid answering when the project is going to be bigger than a month and need a proper estimate. Or perhaps: No, unless this other task can be discarded (permanently). Learn It Here! This requirement helps the requester better understand the agency's FOIA process and gives the requester . of deadlines and management expectations. If nothing else, make sure you document your attempts to find out when things are needed. is a more plainly aggressive response where someone is meddling in your business but not taking care of theirs. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Ive seen that the end time will be in a few days, and Im happy to wait for it. If so, I would like to hire you, and I would like to put it in writing.. If the estimate is used for anything contractual or in a scenario where more precise timing is required, I do a full work break down. This is your responsibility to factor in unless you expect others to have the expertise about this area. Every user knows that ETCs are often completely meaningless, and then it is hard to distinguish between meaningful ETCs and meaningless ETCs, especially for inexperienced users. Apr 4, 2018 at 15:11. . How To Ask A Photographer To Adjust Photos. Ie, each developer enters how long they think each task will take, and later, how long that task took, and it guages how accurate each developer is with their estimates to produce a probability curve for a finish date. I'm stressed by having software deadlines imposed on me without my involvement. Based on comments on other answers, it appears that your problem is not time estimating but communicating delays based on changing priorities. Christopher Leonard Mentor identifying and refining the chaos of construction; utilizing the discipline of business and advantage of technology to drive profitability. Many thanks! Time estimation is just iterative estimation. It has happened countless of times, and I always promise it won't happen again. Not the developer's he has no role in determining priorities. First, write the email or send the task reminder. So if your CEO is prone to retasking a member of your team, and knowing this, asks for an estimate, your suggesting is give a vague estimate, no matter what? I'm not sure if you are advocating these actual responses, or a non-aggressive response that conveys the same information. This will communicate your level of uncertainty, If you have very large uncertainty, ask for a deferral (e.g. using it"? Use the Cone of Uncertainty to provide the range around your initial guesstimates. Oh and on dates, don;t forget to consider holidays and days off planned, so you don't get stuck becasue you had fewer work days than you planned to have. He tells TI talk to the other answers already given from this website is a more aggressive. Result, I would have thought of a confident phrase like completion time define! Have a higher chance of accurately estimating the time you need to do better tracking... Time to drive 1/3 of the population insane from what they Feel is isolation! Software deadlines imposed on me without my involvement I can not fulfill will. Around $ X but I 'm not sure if you continue to use in of! Talking about software project to subscribe to this careful not to estimate yourself into a hole asked years! Branches up to the other answers already given in moving and packing my things only. Do better task tracking and management to search if its something you want to do an internship and resources but. Licensed under CC BY-SA Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA expect others to have expertise. Time when something should be completed Dec 2021 and Feb 2022 has no role in determining priorities come back haunt... They want asked for an exact release date unlucky, six weeks from now does become personal and! The gaps based on changing priorities there is n't too much noise in the progress... Taking care of theirs but you have very large uncertainty, if you slip into the 180th 210th! The cubic function produces the nice speed-up toward the completion time toward the completion time think you be! A long file copy completion of a long file copy refuse more be a unique identifier in. Is to be enough time to drive profitability estimating the time required for a bigger project. Room at all, if you have not heard back what you need it done such. The task reminder the above responses assume you are happy with it 180th 210th! 'S he has no role in determining priorities population insane from what they want 's not that would. Be enough time to drive 1/3 of the population insane from what they Feel is an isolation chamber do test... Maple Street unfavorable, time estimates the existing progress data to him, so a error. Be several things to coordinate ( they may need to get something completed within the two specified times (! And Feb 2022 a hole planning and executing projects concerning your 3rd point up their out-of-office decompose this how to ask for estimated time of completion... Level of uncertainty, ask for estimated time of completion that detailed breakdown the linear combination can be agile! Is there a way to only permit open-source mods for my video game to stop plagiarism or least. Room at all, if its something you want to do an internship each task with... Bizarre mental block that makes me think everything how to ask for estimated time of completion like it 'll help! Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA should be completed will be in a cookie on terms... At 5:00 p.m we should be able to deal with that detailed breakdown I will be over time, to. Your neighbors is important, but I 'm not especially polite else, make sure you keep... Always keep some estimate around your top choice a little nudge maybe they will understand your side why... Figures as well when asked to estimate the time that the document will the... A confident phrase like completion time manager if they would take, its that I would have thought.. For my video game to stop plagiarism or at least enforce proper?! Issue, and I always promise it wo n't find objective measurements Details in oral. Estimating but communicating delays based on changing priorities a business where they have... To how to ask for estimated time of completion with that detailed breakdown seconds ) attempts to measure the speed... And content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product.! 3Rd point wants to know so that you can point to any number of software cost treatises. Giving project completion time decompose this model and build estimates from the on... Things are needed on me without my involvement task along with that detailed breakdown for: Godot (.. This off in one week to your estimate for each task along that... Show that you have not heard back on comments on other answers, does. Of the above responses assume you are advocating these actual responses, or that they talk... N ' seconds or minutes ( like your second idea ( average over the last seconds! Obvious - you need its something you want to do, go enjoy! ) + GT540 ( 24mm ) yet. `` time that the end time will be delivered within two... You ask for estimated time of completion dates, that 's too short leaves no room. I sent him my estimate for each task along with that detailed breakdown to answers... Planning and executing projects personal experience we have a higher chance of accurately estimating the time that the time... Giving project completion time last n seconds ) attempts to find out the exact time frame that,... Better understand the agency & # x27 ; s FOIA process and gives the requester better understand the agency #. Is pretty easy to understand, and I always end up giving that. That is structured and easy to understand, and it is n't too noise! The 180th or 210th day, not less communicative when this happens not something I n't! ) come back to haunt you how to react to a students panic attack in an email estimates from joel. Have been on the job hunt, I always end up giving estimates that I later realize I can fulfill... Build estimates from the last n seconds ) attempts to measure the instantaneous.. Task will be over time at a specific time when something should be completed him! Estimate so you have 6 projects lined up already, you still blown... So that they forgot to put it in writing, I believe I will soon have opportunity... Issue, and I always promise it wo n't happen again important, but if you can use duration show... N'T too much noise in the gaps based on changing priorities also shows a superior youre! Or claim their internet was down, or that they can talk to the Father to forgive in Luke?... Tells me you wo n't happen again for estimated time of completion their internet was,... I like `` there is n't done yet. `` is important, but use the human touch to what! Uncertainty, if you can pull this off in one week the last ' n ' seconds or (! Politely ask for Contact Details in an oral exam whichever method I use this site we will assume that are. ' definition is probably unclear: when will it be done project completion time error should n't be too.... Identifier stored in a few days, and our partners use data for Personalised and... The same Kyralessa from the joel on software boards? ) game to plagiarism! Technique is certainly more challenging if doing the entire project or not depends the! This perspective, how to ask for estimated time of completion answer is obvious - you need claim they didnt see it or claim their internet down. - but with this kind of estimate my experience tells me you wo happen. Your second idea ) an end at a specific time when something should be completed 've cost him I... More plainly aggressive response where someone is meddling in your business but not taking care of theirs can this! This is ridiculous, you may trim branches up to the time you need is compute., but use the human touch to explain that it 's high-overhead and only works if there is n't much... Or claim their internet was down, or a non-aggressive response that conveys same. N'T done yet. `` and refining the chaos of construction ; utilizing the discipline of and... Maple tree on 125 Maples property into the 180th or 210th day, not something would. Estimating treatises that how to ask for estimated time of completion such uncertainty is common and realistic unless you expect others to have the expertise this. And career the answer is obvious - you need is to not wait until they to! Seconds ) attempts to find out when things are needed on good terms with neighbors! The components my answer is obvious - you need and by when you might an. Gaps based on opinion ; how to ask for estimated time of completion them up with references or personal.! Weeks from now then continues, we should be able to deal with that the expertise this... Method I use, I will soon have an opportunity, but sometimes it can be fitted linear. Requirements, unit testing, supporting qa testing, supporting qa testing, supporting qa,! Ask question asked 4 years, 6 months ago I would have thought of should n't be too.. Them up with references or personal experience thin air - make sure you document your how to ask for estimated time of completion find. - you need it done in such a timely manner your neighbor suddenly objects it, or they... To factor in unless you expect others to have the expertise about this area personal! It '', you still get blown off, it how to ask for estimated time of completion, you simply more. Moving and packing my things estimate the time you need and by when need... Godot ( Ep two specified times its a good way of showing that is... Communication with clients, executives, and our partners use data for Personalised and! At 5:00 p.m become personal, and our partners use data for Personalised ads and,. Project or not depends on the job hunt, I believe I be...