So many perps being exposed it looks like the Lord is behind the exposure. Amnon: I WANNA TAMAR! publishers suspend publication of books by megachurch pastor Hybels. It can be such a power deal included in lots of other power moves by the evil ones well regarded in church. I doubt you get the same affect from creepy weirdo hugs. Nor will Christians abandon their faith en masse over this. Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. To me its a faux and phony culture that cant get over itself. In her statement Monday, Niequist said she remains "in relationship with my dad." "I love him, & I always will. We saw the dirty laundry, the rebellious child, etc. @ Headless Unicorn Guy: There is a reason that statute of limitations are being revised throughout the country. I have heard sermons on the side hug. To all those women that have been psychologically damaged, what a needless tradegy. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Like you, quite a few of us have spent years studying it deeply. Unfortunately, some of us are coming to the conclusion that this is what much of The Church really is: a thought reform institution. Activism. Stop the Nonsense, WCC Trebuchet Club!!!! I dont know if that all makes sense. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. Theres much interesting reading on the Donald MacLeod thread, including this 1988 quote posted Thursday by Malcolm, from Mr James Fraser: his response failed to allay my fears that there was some truth in the allegations. Forgiveness/ redemption for the sinner does not mean acceptance of the sin, nor does it mean deliverance from the consequences of the sin. Whats being destroyed is the idol worship of Bill Hybels. She thanks you too. I appreciate my bosses wisdom. Posted travelpro skywalk vs maxlite. Every dept, every spin off ministry, with line item salaries. People said the same sort of things about us, people sneered at us, shunned us, surely said Whats wrong with this picture just like you did. If interested, I posted more material, links, analysis, and some leads to Dan Brennans thoughts on anxious egalitarianism, on this article: https://futuristguy.wordpress.com/2018/04/12/some-thoughts-on-supposedly-feminist-men-who-reportedly-abuse-harass-women/. But if true it is still not honorable behavior. Please bear with me. Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. And actually, it was the Holy Spirit that empowered Peter to be so bold that made it happen. It was recently revealed that Bill Hybels' wife, Lynne, filed for divorce after 37 years of marriage. Bingo. . He has two children with his wife, Lynn whom he married in 1974. Their view of the person is completely undermined by the experience. To choose to continue to take a medication in spite of those side effects, when there are so many other sleep aids available, makes no sense. Its the attempt by pastors to do life together and facilitate relationship-building which will then hopefully anchor the visitor to the church and reduce dropouts and increase retention rates. Amen! As I say if he had a true understanding of what his behavior had done he might give the kind of apology that these women want. ) (John 18:10 NIV). Ask yourself If we are to judge on actions that are listed as sin or are considered crimes, then what does this really mean. I was never a member, but many family members were including on the entertainment, I mean worship, team. 1 in particular always made flirtatious comments. Catherine-you are in permanent moderation. Dear TWW readers, I am in Australia so I comment and tweet and post things on FB when you are asleep if you are in the USA. They are rarely anything alike. Is that honest? When one person has an experience like this with a trusted friend and spiritual leader, they typically dont know how to make sense of it. You were easily manipulated by an evil expert (especially with children). Below, what to know about the Bill Hybels scandal. Simul justus et peccator. (Spell check keeps changing it to percolator!). Shameful! I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. In response to that question: Was Hybels leading folks to Christ or to Hybels? ), you come across as naive, profoundly ignorant. From what I understand Hybels had a history of handpicking Bible versus to pummel anyone who disagreed with him concerning church doctrine, etc Not surprising. I am going to ask a hard question. And many that I know and love have yet to escape. I do believe that he may have gone through a time of repentance and contrition, as much as he may understand that he needs to, and has come to the other side of it and that is the reason that he may not seem as repentant as they expect. how many people worship Hybels instead of God. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? @ Forrest: But what does that have to do with her testimony? The church is doing fine. People you work with? You had a bad leader, and a bunch of elders who were unwilling to accept that, and call him on it. Theres been so much of this lately that I think (hope!) I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Just wondering??? You gotta really watch out for people who hug themselves. This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. You were there (especially for children) Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? Does anybody know how much hugging it takes to facilitate which feeling, assuming that the response is does related? Im particularly disgusted by They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. I worked as a psychotherapist with both perpetrators and victims of sexual boundary violations for 20 years. @ AbuseCrusher: They also have two children together, whose name we don't know. I cant help but see your point here. I see this is a crucial issue, and I appreciate that Dee has put it forward for consideration in abuse survivor communities. Ephesians 4:2. it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself!, When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou, https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg. https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cults-Insidious-All-Consuming-Organization/dp/0814404936. Lynne Hybels was born on 21st November 1951. @ truthseeker00: And some people here are calling your guru to account for apparently not being obedient at all, for being a fraud, a hypocrite. Read Paul on Mars hill. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. That statement should never have been sent out and hasnt been corrected to this day! How to build a corporation in 5 easy steps. I have seen it done for over 40 years now. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. 2022 Special Gift: As a token of God's faithfulness in his life, his family and ministry, all these . Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? @ Deborah: http://www.dianelangberg.com/2018/04/dear-church/, Dee, my Sister Nancy Beach sent me this today. I hope your eyes are one day opened. I do wonder what the men exchanging holy kisses in bible times did for their brains. This one is so true. And theres nothing fundamentally wrong with that in the proper context. That has got to be trans-species perversion right there. There are many Gods or gods. Gossip! That ill advised letter by Jodi is one example. The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. It is about following a Rabbi who was despised and mocked and sent to the Cross. Im thankful they embraced egalitarianism and led the way with women in leadership. They called people out who were lying, as well as inappropriate practices in the churches.]. @ dee: An accusation could hurt the church, the members and even Christianity. Lets pretend we know what we are doing., When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time. Maya Angelou. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? I pity you if thats the case. Let me give you some good news. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. Thats a laugh. 1 comment about arms Thats how they get by with it. Jodi may get extra points for a time for her clever rant but if this thing goes south she will be the first to go. Eleven repented and realized their failing at the resurrection. These kinds of document preservation policies are in place to protect the organization. Which is why the Internet is SATANIC WITCHCRAAAAAFT and their on-lookers are the WITCHES! Excellent comment! Nigerian pop song about a con man. Bill Hybels has stepped down. You be the Mugu; I be the Master! And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. Bill Hybels stepped down. Put it in context and think about such a convo. People want to see us deal with our sin openly and humbly. Chicago Tribune article #5, by Manya Brachear Pashman. Though Lynne had intended to become a social worker, she did not hesitate to commit her life to church ministry, convinced that God has given the local church a clear mandate to address the needs of "the whole person in the whole world." Thats the thing; note the commonality of the golden parachute disembarking in these cases. Like they say, to each his own. First-run movies, gym memberships, bowling alleys, rock-climbing, restaurant franchises, lotsa merch & swag, all for a simple swipe or tap of your card (or phone app) charging each and every tap/swipe to your student loan? Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. I am quite curious what nonsense what posted now, because what?! Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. Wouldnt a practice of permanently deleting emails create potential legal liability for the person and the institution? I hope that someone who knows what they are doing is archiving all of the official statements and documents by Hybels and WC. its definitely legit and very well written. Its not. August 7, 2018. I dont know what you have been told but, according to the Bible, Jesus is the one who brings people to Himself. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it?. When you read it, I think you might as well. They were taking Jesus away to be put in trial. Its amazing how many believers will interpret the metaphor of fruit differently, for example. Please dont judge Nancys actions she did what most women would do. I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. Ive no doubt that there was irregularities going on at WCC. There are films to prove it. Im not saying any of that is right. Many self/proclaimed Christians dont. What I count is as follows: ? Why not go public 4 years ago?? Eloquence is a gift from God, but it is only the Holy Spirit working through the folly of proclaiming Christ crucified that ever won a single soul. So thats why I was interested in this concept. Jack wrote: I dont know if you have any experience with megachurch staffs or not. Written in 1999! 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. I can assure her that never once was I assaulted, harassed etc. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. Yes, the ambien thing really bugs me. The retiring pastor calls it all collusion and lies. Wild!!! Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. He was talking about how successful Sociopaths and Swindlers and Abusers are masters of Camouflage (and Misdirection)! Lets just call it a deviation from the mainstream Christian view of hell. This story involved a fourteen-year sexual affair. This reminds me of Bob Packwood, a former senator from my state. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations. Peter was upset. Satan loves false dichotomies, republicans vs. democrats, Calvinists vs. Arminians, traditional vs. contemporary, etc. The church Elders allowed Bill to stay in an unsupervised counseling relationship with her, while neither her husband nor Bill's wife was made aware of the situation. Christianity Lite, theyve taken the salt out of salt. Ive worked with men for over 40 years in business. The Body of Christ will be fine. But it should not be celebrated, as Williams and Dummitt directly stated and indirectly did with continuous praises and accolades. Of course not. For further flow of events, see I, Claudius, Dune, and Game of Thrones. Kids will tell you straight up, but I kind of treat them like stray cats and let them come to me! Brothers Dont Shake Hands, Brothers Gotta Hug. Tommy Boy, its definitely legit and very well written. Big money, fame, power and influence? And then sometimes, you end up like me: done with it all, the system that props up people with give the title pastor, that is like fresh meat to the malignant narcissist. I went back to my hotel room and cried, not understanding what had just happened. It would seem the as yet unnamed individual, reported to have had an affair, has legal claim against multiple parties. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. there was no hostile work environment attached. Willow is no exception. Cherry picking scripture out of context wont convince many here, scare or shame them. Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. Lengthy quotes rarely get read and can be annoying. They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. If there is one thing I find the most comprehensively evil is manipulative deception. A lot of people find security and safety in that. I happened to meet the other womans husband, and I suppose the megapastor considered him a type C or D leader and didnt often invite him along. Im probably sensitive about this because Ive seen the this is what you get for being an egalitarian on social media and it drives me nuts. Rats gnawing cables in two; I hope someone captured that document. Global Leadership huh Bill ? Do it on your personal, not work, email. Hooray for David. They were forced to buy the package and become little Creekers in order to try and stay in the game. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+5&version=NIV, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. @ truthseeker00: @ okrapod: You are now in permanent moderation. When youre the victim of something creepy, such as abuse, suggestive sexual behavior or private narcissistic rage or whatever ugly thing from a pastor who holds himself up as a paragon of virtue, people often feel embarrassed at having been involved in it, even if they had nothing to do with the wrongful actions. I tell you, when someone like BH is exposed, people come out of the woodworks to defend their celebrity hero and attempt to discredit the victims. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations.. So much! Is it the lack of family having your back? So much! 3 comments are deleted. 2,395 Followers, 144 Following, 415 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from @lynnehybels @ Headless Unicorn Guy: You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. This stemmed from a Gospel of Personal Salvation and ONLY Personal Salvation (everything else was All Gonna Burn) where the only thing God would ask on J-Day was How Many Souls Did YOU Save? and the numbers in your sales record would be all that determined your position and rank in Heaven. Good night! Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. Is that honest? Are Lynn and Bill Hybels still married? Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. Steve Carter (Hybels hand picked teaching pastor) was on staff with Rob Bell at Mars Hill EMERGENT Church. The naked woman swimming around the boat incident he related in a way to make himself appear understanding and concerned for her welfare. @ dee: I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. Uh oh..then we are in trouble. And if it gets really bad the staunch hybels factions may end up being ousted. But we are not talking about the secular world. One has nothing to do with the other. We are the only ones allowing them through even though I am starting to disallow some. I saw it on the Willow Creek Church Facebook page, and posted it here because I know someone here will get to the bottom of it. Publicado en 88000 . Not that hugs are linked to drugs; I am just meandering. I have said that I do not appreciate victim denigration which is inherent in her supposed expos .Enough is enough. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. I hug relatives and near relatives depending on the situation-like somebody is dead. Same outrage. In this case, not only Peter but Barnabas and others were getting caught up in inerrant action that impacted Christian fellowship. But telling someone immediately might be crucial in the future. I do not attend Willow Creek but I have friends who do, and Ive taken friends and family there in the past, hoping their seeker friendly focus might appeal to them. Our job is to sow seeds. I pray every day for you-know-who to be able to find a way out of teaching which did not result in poverty. Why not go public 4 years ago?? The issue with those who had represented themselves before God and man as being in a place of spiritual authority with the responsibility to be above reproach often have escaped civil or criminal conviction or any sort of permanent admission of guilt or shortcoming for which repentance is called. The pastor didnt understand that this was not about sex but about control and power. I, like so many others a tragic victim of corrupted Christianity. Creepy hug? There will always be outrage when the celebrity idols are touched in any way. Brad may be a Christian, one stunted by being immersed in an environment that had the form of godliness while denying the power, but he also may be one who wouldnt know Jesus if He walked up and gave him a hug. Women get to decide if they want to be touched or not, and oh he did not mean anything by should never even have to be brought into play-in the workplace. I dont think Jesus sees things the same way they do. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. Its the whole structure of the godly pastor on stage week after week. truthseeker wrote: I have encountered such men who speak pridefully about how many they have saved. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. RE got to talking about guys grabbing a boobie feel with side hugs; she thinks it is pretty ubiquitous in the male population. Anyone questioning the purpose of this blog should realize that when churches and relgious leaders put themselves out there accountabilty comes with that publicity. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. And Charisma House/new Mark Driscoll book . Bill called my hotel room in Sweden, in February of 1998, after a long conference day. Time will tell whether WC was following Christ or Hybels. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. The church isnt being destroyed. I never saw a cross hanging in Willow nor heard a pastor speak out against gay marriage, women pastors or the slaughter of the Palestinians, etc . They collected funds for widows and orphans, and then distributed those funds as promised. And thats how you end up with an entire institution being transformed in a little over two decades. During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. He is politically liberal, decrying sexism, racism, and the fear of people who are different, and is a vocal critic of Donald Trump. But David and all Israel beginning at Davids own house bore the consequences of the sin. FOUR YEARS!! So, does that mean the alleged improprieties, at least for them, are not #Metoo worthy offenses? Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. I dont see how Willow Creek can move forward with the existing board. Interesting how you get it, but those in high places do not. Not a word. Or the colleague. They were powerful, influentual, respected leaders. As this onion is being peeled back, it really gives us an insight into life at the top tier of a megachurch. I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? 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